Friday, February 15, 2008

Thinking Past "Post-Avant"




One of the (many) problems with the term "post-avant" (a topic that has recently been the subject of some, er, spirited conversation in the comment box to this post by Reginald Shepherd at Harriet) is how utterly unexciting its lexical meaning is when you think about it. If the avant-garde is the front ranks, then it stands to reason that the post-avant is ... the second ranks. The back-up troops, in other words. Boooorrring.

Another problem is that "post-avant" is now typically used by different people to designate poets so unlike each other that it's hard to see how one term can possibly be relevant to all of them. What do Joseph Massey, Liz Willis, Christian Bok, Katie Degentesh, Jennifer Knox, Jocelyn Saidenberg, CA Conrad, Dorothea Lasky, Linh Dinh, Carl Martin, Dolores Dorantes, and Ken Rumble have in common (beyond, perhaps, having some--though not all--of the same social connections)? Not much, unless one postulates that they all represent an "alternative" to a "mainstream," insofar as "mainstream" refers to a certain group of poets whose relation to each other is no less vague, consisting mainly in their shared centrality within one narrow professional circuit of universities, publishing houses, and bucolic summer retreats. But the stylistic and theoretical approaches of the poets I've named are all so different that any such alternativeness on their part is so heterogeneously determined as to be difficult to conceptualize as a shared aesthetic, and even that aforementioned mainstream circuit is now expanding to include many of the poets in question. And it is not as simple as arguing that those who resist assimilation into that circuit (through their own will or that of others) are the "true" avant-garde, or post-avant, or whatever. The various academic and coterie wars of the past half-century or so amount finally to the personality-based surface indices of fluctuations in market taste. To argue otherwise is to head down that paranoid path of conspiracy theory, wherein great bland forces of not just formal but political conservatism have banded together to beat down the forces of progressive experimentation. Yes, I know it feels that way. Yes, dull-minded chauvinists like Charles Simic are typically awarded positions of relative visibility in which to air their retrograde notions. Yes, institutions like Poetry Magazine ... okay, maybe it is a conspiracy.

Still, I'm not seeing any coherency in the "post-avant" rubric. At least, no more than there is in the habit of thought that allows "new wave" to encompass both The Slits and The Go Gos. Part of the confusion comes from the related, prior error of assuming that there are two genealogies of poetic influence in America: one quietudinous and repressive, the other modernist and liberatory. There are in fact fourteen main genealogies, eleven of which overlap with each other, producing in effect thirty-seven sub-genealogies, which in turn generate a mandala-like criss-crossing wheel of two hundred and sixty-eight microgenealogies, some consisting of single poets or even blank slots reserved for potential poets. I've got it all written down somewhere.

Case in point: the "New American Poets." What a freaking old-boy network of sexists and gasbags, with about four and a half exceptions. And some of them ... whoo boy, talk about nondescript. I mean, who the hell are Ebbe Borregaard and Bruce Boyd, anyway? Sure, even they, whoever they are, could probably kick the asses of just about any poet who received a major award in the US between the years of 1973 and 2004. My point? I no longer have one. Don't interrupt me, I'm talking here.

And what is the deal with all these discussions about the AWP? Why on earth would anyone want to discuss it? Let me give you the skinny (what does that mean, anyway, "the skinny"?) on the AWP: you go, you head straight for the hotel bar, and you stay there as much as possible. Don't go to any panels unless you're on them. Under no circumstance go to any of the off-site "parties" hosted by presses and magazines. In some cases the university-sponsored parties in the hotel have free drinks. Get in, drink fast, get out. If Alice Notley is reading somewhere, try to see that--she's fucking great. Make sure to be at the book fair at the end of the last day when they start giving crap away. Then back to the bar, and/or whoever's room. At some point you go home, and then the only thing worth "discussing" is who was hot and who was a tweak and who was a big honking climber phony. And that only in person, with someone else who was there that you trust.

In conclusion, "post-avant" my ass, who the heck is Ebbe Borregaard? and don't try to analyze the goddam AWP as though it were a relevant cultural phenomenon. Also, keep an eye out for Abraham Lincoln #2--coming soon!

22 comments:

Mike Young said...

This is all i can do:
Toy car from little kid dropping
Cactus on chair
When wife brings cornflakes let her drop it on his head
When guy wanna take the bottle to get coffee click a lot on it then the handle will break
Put whiskey in his cornflakes
In place of chanching the wires, Cut the wire whit the scissors
Then put scissors on paper
Put cat on the right time on fire
put keys in the heatener (Or whatever you call it)
Thats all i know!
Tell me who knows more

Mike H said...

This is pretty entertaining and I agree with most of it. I don't know which parts I don't agree with it...

Re: the implausibility of Slits=Go Gos etc., the "post-avant/New American" thing does kind of mirror the lexicon of "alternative" music in some way, with say Frank O'Hara, Robert Creeley and Jackson MacLow as the equivelant of say The Velevet Underground, Jonathan Richman, and, I don't know, Can in some way. Or something like that.

What I want to know is who's the Mark E. Smith here? But that's usually what I wanna know. And no one wants to be Sufjan Stevens, eww yuck, if he's even in that "line".

It's like maybe these distinctions were once useful but they sure as hell aren't anymore. But then wait, why is that I'm automatically assuming they were ever useful? Ok, I've gone past some kind of blog comment cut-off for length.

Angela Genusa said...

K. (and Mike Young, too): Amen!

mark wallace said...

Interesting discussion of AWP, Kasey. Nobody wants to talk about it but everybody does it anyway, I guess. I like the rest of this post too.

CLAY BANES said...

I too was thinking of the greeting "New Wave," mired as I am mostly, most days, chewing my ankle.

One of my favorite unastute curiosities, because I'm seriously not particularly intelligent, is why any clamoring need whatsoever to caution the retarded?

Thanks for the savory post. Please bring #2 forthwith.

Angela Genusa said...

Your post inspired me:
http://packageinsertofsorrows.
blogspot.com/2008/02/
pass-post-post-labels.html
Thnx!

ma vie en bling said...

Abraham Lincoln #2 is a big honking hot tweak climber.

sandrasimonds said...

Abe Lincoln is better than all of the dumb glossy journals that they sell at AWP.

I climb up to the top of my Abe every day and look out on the world below.

sandrasimonds said...

PS

I tried to find out who Ebbe Borregaard is, but all I got on google was YOU asking "who is Ebbe Borregaard?!" Poor guy.

shanna said...

this post tickles. & smells like bananas.

Frank Sauce said...

Nice little ditty. My fav ditty of yours in quite some time.

Don't know what you mean, but know you mean it.

Post-Avant=After-Before

Anyone who is now writing is "post-avant" those who have stopped writing "avant." Perhaps those who have stopped writing are now sleeping or eating or drinking or deading and those who are writing are writing badly or greatly.

How about Post-Avant-Maintenant? Who are those poets and where are they? Ok, that was stupid.

Your post wasn't.

Good read.

FS

Jonathan said...

There are 44 poets in the NAP. Four are women. Two of those you've heard of: Guest and Levertov.

It's true nobody's heard of Ebbe. I had to google him recently to find out his gender.

But the book also included Olson, Duncan, Creeley, O'Hara, Ashbery, Koch, Spicer, Blackburn, Ginsberg, the then Leroi Jones, etc... In other words every major poet that we are still reading. Nobody can touch those 4 and half exceptions. What's surpring is not the Ebbes and the Helen Adamses, but the fact that more than half are still hugely influential. Compare that to the Hall/Pack/Simpson book.

The ones who are slightly younger and missed out on the NAP are still in the orbit of those writers. The Berrigans, the Rothenbergs of this world. That's why we are still post them. There hasn't been anything since of the same impact.

That's the argument anyway...

Annandale Dream Gazette said...

I am Ebbe Borregaard.









































































not really just kidding

mgushuedc said...

I am Ebbe Borregaard's Liver.

bill said...

kasey, that mandala you made sounds like the surfer dude's theory of everything, based on: E8, a complex, eight-dimensional mathematical pattern with 248 points

Robert J. said...

The word verification is about to make me type "jiswap".

That's post-avant, Kasey.

Also, did I ever tell what a big fan of Mark Strand I am?

brian salchert said...

Kasey wrote:
"There are in fact fourteen main
genealogies, eleven of which overlap
with each other, producing in effect
thirty-seven sub-genealogies,
which in turn generate a mandala-like
criss-crossing wheel of two hundred
and sixty-eight microgenealogies,
some consisting of single poets or
even blank slots reserved for
potential poets.
I've got it all written down somewhere."

Accurate or not, I love this because/
while it may come across as being
hilarious--
and perhaps is even intended to be,
I accept it as being adroitly descriptive.

Nada said...

The Slits were never EVER "new wave." And neither were the GoGos initially, back when Belinda Carlisle was fat.

phaneronoemikon said...

young mike,
The Gravity Descenders
know more.

They are 'rejuta'
in the ink squids
caught half-way
through the hovering
pages.

They are 'bible-fog-
wong-dough-gone'
where the onyx bricks
'manjonda' like a tentacle
to the square-mouthed
boly.

The Gravity Descenders
no more, and gave less yes
because within their oddities
or skills, they could never
overcome, their skins
of natural weeping
which began when
motion stopped
or rest.

young mike,
Another one
who cut paper well
was John Andre'.

He too
came to
know more
about
the
Gravity Descenders...

Reginald Shepherd said...

Dear Kasey,

I hope that you are well. Perhaps it's just my own sense of amour propre, but I couldn't help but notice that all three topics of this post, "post-avant" poetry, the New American Poets, and AWP, seem to be responses to pieces I have written on the Poetry Foundation's Harriet blog, and to the discussion and controversy that those pieces aroused, and yet my name does not appear once in your post. I realize that you don't mention other participants in these discussions (Joshua Corey and Robert Archambeau, for example), but nonetheless, I found it a little odd to be the ghost who starts the play but no one can see.

Take good care.

all best,

Reginald

K. Silem Mohammad said...

Dear Reginald,

You're right, my post was triggered by all the action you started over at Harriet. I probably should have mentioned you. My only defense is that since what I had to say was largely derisive (not of you, of everything in sight, of how terrible "post-avant" is and life), I thought it would be kindest to leave your name out of it. But henceforth let proper credit be given: I've amended the beginning of the post.

Best,

Kasey

jwg said...

Kasey,

Strange. Was reading The Reality Street Book of Sonnets and came across this brilliant poet I had never heard of. Ebbe Borregaard. I have before me 12 poems. I want more. I don't know much, but through this search, learned that he ran in Spicer's circle. Here is a sonnet from the book

For what do I race these corridors of courtesy/
from here on tell me love in poetry/
Aye, and you, I am fickle too,/
so rest in me now dumb fool/
claspt in such inhospitable devotion—/
POOOT, this is for them behind
near on to me./
Love is lost as it is to me,/
she fell away like fruit blown down with wind,/
POOOT that I am, headlong I carry/
my fawnsey quills dug in my sides/
in which contemporary diseases ride./
On either hand groves of grievous tyranny/
in which to hang yr golden tapestry.


*******
forgive the html. The / and if strange indentions are my own. His poem stays on the left margin.

Now I need to learn more and will continue the search. Nice to see you here though.